{"id":1399,"date":"2011-11-09T15:53:04","date_gmt":"2011-11-09T21:53:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/texas\/?p=1399"},"modified":"2011-11-09T18:28:51","modified_gmt":"2011-11-10T00:28:51","slug":"tceq-talks-enforcement-reforms-and-budget-cuts","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/texas\/2011\/11\/09\/tceq-talks-enforcement-reforms-and-budget-cuts\/","title":{"rendered":"TCEQ Talks Enforcement, Reforms, and Budget Cuts"},"content":{"rendered":"

With about 2,760 employees, 16 regional offices, and an operating budget of $354 million this yea<\/a>r, the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality is the second largest state environmental regulation agency in the U.S.<\/p>\n

The man in charge of Compliance and Enforcement at TCEQ is Richard Hyde<\/strong>.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>

<\/p>

Richard Hyde is Deputy Director of TCEQ's Office of Compliance and Enforcement. Photo courtesy of TCEQ.<\/p><\/div>\n

Hyde sat down with reporter Mose Buchele<\/strong> as part of StateImpact Texas’ coverage of recently released EPA watch lists of Clean Air Act violators. Those lists showed many repeat polluters are located in Texas.<\/p>\n

While the TCEQ said it wouldn’t comment on EPA data, Hyde and spokesperson Terry Clawson<\/strong> did field questions about a range of other subjects. Below are some excerpts from that 20 minute interview touching on TCEQ’s defense of its enforcement record, the Sunset Committee recommended reforms at the Agency, and the impact of state budget cuts on enforcement.<\/p>\n

Enforcement and Flexibility<\/strong><\/p>\n

Mose Buchele<\/strong>: Alright, could I open up with a general question about the Commission\u2019s approach towards enforcement?<\/p>\n

Richard Hyde:<\/strong> Sure, the Commission takes enforcement very seriously. It\u2019s one of the tools in the toolbox we use. We want all companies to comply with their permits and the rules — that\u2019s our genuine goal — and we\u2019ll use all the tools in the toolbox to make that happen. If we have to use enforcement we use it, and it\u2019s swift and just.<\/p>\n

Buchele:<\/strong> What are some changes that you\u2019re looking at?<\/p>\n

Hyde:<\/strong> Out of the Sunset Commission, one of the biggest parts of the report about the agency was two things. They wanted to enhance our penalty policy, to make sure our penalties were appropriate and just. And then the other piece of that was our enforcement. They wanted our enforcement policies to be, to ensure that they were transparent and that everybody, the regulated community, the public, all those that were interested, knew what those policies were, and we\u2019ve begun that process.<\/p>\n

Buchele<\/strong>:<\/strong> A necessary change by the estimation of the Commission?<\/p>\n

Hyde<\/strong>:<\/strong> Sure. Yes. Well through the Sunset process the Sunset Committee worked with the Commission naturally. You know, the Commission was embracing of any changes. And even our Commissioners testified that some of these things were things that they wanted the legislature to weigh in on, and give us recommendations back on. And these two were two of the key ones that the Commission asked for guidance from the legislature, and we were given it. So, absolutely.<\/p>\n

Buchele<\/strong>:<\/strong> I\u2019ve interviewed a lot of folks who say that the debate now is on flexibility. The Commission may want to maintain some degree of flexibility [in its enforcement]. Other people might argue [it would be better with] everything etched in stone. If you could describe where that debate is, and maybe what the opinion of the Commission is.<\/p>\n

Hyde<\/strong>:<\/strong> Sure. What we\u2019re really talking about is enforcement, when you\u2019re talking about that. Certainly, the Commission always wants an open and transparent process. But you also, when you\u2019re talking about enforcement, you want there to be a level of uncertainty. You don\u2019t want it to be totally clear because you always want companies to understand that the agency has the ability to enforce against them. With that said though, we did ask the Commission a series of questions. Do you want those to be placed in rules so they are concrete and that they are formalized? And they directed us to go down a path for rule making. And so it\u2019s a mixed box. You want companies to always comply with their permits and the rules and if they don\u2019t, you want them to understand that the agency will take swift enforcement against them.<\/p>\n

Buchele<\/strong>:<\/strong> You said that you want to maintain some flexibility in part because you don\u2019t need industry to know exactly what all the tools are for the Commission?<\/p>\n

Hyde<\/strong>:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n

Buchele<\/strong>:<\/strong> Could you explain that a little bit more?<\/p>\n

Hyde<\/strong>:<\/strong> You want there to be a level of uncertainty because you don\u2019t want industry to out-think your enforcement, you want them to comply. And so a piece of this is always that the agency wants to retain responsibility for how they\u2019re going to make companies comply. It doesn\u2019t mean that we want it to be not clear, but we do feel like flexibility in our enforcement process allows us to have more swift justice. And that\u2019s what we do.<\/p>\n

TCEQ\u2019s Record
\n<\/strong><\/p>\n

Buchele<\/strong>:<\/strong> There are going to be voices that are highly critical of the Commission in this story, and I would open this up as your opportunity to point to the Commission\u2019s history with enforcement, with penalties, anything you\u2019d like to say about that, about successes you might have seen.<\/p>\n

Hyde<\/strong>:<\/strong> Well last year we issued over 1,650 agreed orders. That\u2019s the most orders we\u2019ve ever issued. Over 11 million dollars in penalties, I believe is the number. Our enforcement continues to go up. Many of these facilities that individuals are concerned about, we have boots on the ground, in those facilities, almost daily. Some of these facilities are inspected 2-300 times a year. The other thing I would point to is on an annual basis, we are required to report back to the legislature and the Governor\u2019s Office [on] our enforcement. That report is available in January of every year. I can tell you we are very engaged in enforcement and that report is for the entire public to see.<\/p>\n

Buchele<\/strong>:<\/strong> Anything you can point to? You said, \u2018it\u2019s up.\u2019 You know, what\u2019s been going on to increase enforcement?<\/p>\n

Hyde<\/strong>:<\/strong> Well, many of these facilities are subject to so many different rules and regulations. How you actually have enforcement, you\u2019ve got to have boots on the ground in those facilities. And so like I said it\u2019s a tool in the toolbox. A lot of it is state law, but a lot of it is federal law that we\u2019re mandated to be in these facilities. And when we identify issues we try to resolve them, up and to including enforcement. So, it\u2019s just the nature of the beast. Now I would love for us to have zero orders, because that would mean everybody is complying with their permits and all the rules. But that\u2019s not the case. And so we will continue to do what we are required to do by state law and federal law.<\/p>\n

Different \u2018Tools in the Toolbox\u2019<\/strong><\/p>\n

Buchele<\/strong>:<\/strong> Can you explain what some of the other tools are then?<\/p>\n

Hyde<\/strong>:<\/strong> Well, you know, we try to incentivize companies to have emission reductions — to go out on their own and reduce emissions, which is the best way. If companies will take a voluntary approach to reduce emissions on their own, there\u2019s little involvement with the agency.\u00a0 Certainly, we have supplemental environmental improvement plans where if a company has problems, they can invest that money back into the facility so that they can reduce emissions.<\/p>\n

TCEQ Fosters Economic Sustainability<\/strong><\/p>\n

Buchele<\/strong>:<\/strong> It is in the mission statement of the Commission to try to foster economic development. You know, the Commission enforces regulation, but it also does so with an eye to a fostering a growing economy.<\/p>\n

Hyde<\/strong>:<\/strong> It is. You have to have both. You can have a strong economy and you can have companies that are complying with their permits. We\u2019ve seen it over and over and over again in this state how we can work with companies, have them comply, and allow them to do the business that they intend to do. A cooperative effort seems to work much better than a draconian effort. That\u2019s what we do in Texas, and there\u2019s a lot of benefit there.<\/p>\n

TCEQ Spokesperson Terry Clawson:<\/strong> You know what I\u2019ve heard the [TCEQ] Chairman [Bryan Shaw] say a hundred times, well not a hundred times, but several times, you know, if you look at societies where there is good environmental protection and good clean up and things like that, it\u2019s healthy wealthy economies with lots of jobs and people employed. That\u2019s where you have a healthy environment. The worst hell holes are the Communist, totalitarian, and the poor countries — those have the worst environmental hell holes in the world. It\u2019s a healthy economy and a healthy society where you can afford to do the environmental cleanups.<\/p>\n

Impact of Cuts<\/strong><\/p>\n

Buchele<\/strong>:<\/strong> Across the board throughout the state we saw agencies needed to make some necessary cuts, or I guess necessary by some estimations, other people might say no. But how do you feel those cuts might impact the work of the Commission?<\/p>\n

Hyde<\/strong>:<\/strong> Well from enforcement, certainly our goal is to not lose any of what we call boots on the ground, field investigators. It\u2019s our goal to make sure that we have all the necessary people in these facilities and doing inspections that we have. So there will be no cuts there from my office\u2019s standpoint. What we have testified about is that we will do the goals and the missions of the agency. It\u2019s just some things may take a little longer. But we are still mandated by state requirements and federal requirements to do a certain amount of inspections, to meet our LBB, our budgetary requirements, and we\u2019ll do that. It\u2019s just that [for] some of these things it just may take us longer to complete an enforcement action or something. And here we are, we\u2019re already in the New Year and we\u2019re doing fine. We\u2019re committed to making sure that we meet the obligations that we\u2019re expected to meet, and we\u2019ve been doing that.<\/p>\n

Clawson:<\/strong> And the 2011 Enforcement Report should be out in a few weeks.<\/p>\n

Hyde<\/strong>:<\/strong> January. We\u2019ll present it to the Commission in December, and then it will be presented to the legislature in January.<\/p>\n

Buchele<\/strong>:<\/strong> Any predictions?<\/p>\n

Hyde<\/strong>:<\/strong> Like I said, it looks very similar to the 2010 report. 2010 we did a record number of enforcement orders, and I don\u2019t recall, but I don\u2019t think, I think we plateaued a little bit there. But still, lots of penalties, lots of enforcement, air, water, and waste.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

With about 2,760 employees, 16 regional offices, and an operating budget of $354 million this year, the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality is the second largest state environmental regulation agency in the U.S. The man in charge of Compliance and Enforcement at TCEQ is Richard Hyde. Hyde sat down with reporter Mose Buchele as part […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":51,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[60],"tags":[84,22,21,39,33],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/texas\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1399"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/texas\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/texas\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/texas\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/51"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/texas\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1399"}],"version-history":[{"count":22,"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/texas\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1399\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1429,"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/texas\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1399\/revisions\/1429"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/texas\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1399"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/texas\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1399"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/texas\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1399"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}