{"id":34141,"date":"2021-07-01T05:00:53","date_gmt":"2021-07-01T10:00:53","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/?p=34141"},"modified":"2021-07-01T13:45:44","modified_gmt":"2021-07-01T18:45:44","slug":"we-should-know-glossip-supporter-oklahoma-lawmaker-wants-more-scrutiny-in-death-row-cases","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/2021\/07\/01\/we-should-know-glossip-supporter-oklahoma-lawmaker-wants-more-scrutiny-in-death-row-cases\/","title":{"rendered":"\u2018We should know\u2019: Glossip supporter, Oklahoma lawmaker wants more scrutiny in death row cases"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"attachment_34143\"  class=\"wp-caption module image aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px;\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-large wp-image-34143\" src=\"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-in-Petes-1920x1478.jpg\" alt=\"Rep. Kevin McDugle speaks to a group of legislators sitting down for lunch inside Pete's Place.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1478\" srcset=\"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-in-Petes-1920x1478.jpg 1920w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-in-Petes-672x517.jpg 672w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-in-Petes-768x591.jpg 768w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-in-Petes-150x115.jpg 150w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-in-Petes-300x231.jpg 300w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-in-Petes-620x477.jpg 620w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-in-Petes-1403x1080.jpg 1403w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\" \/><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-media-credit\">Quinton Chandler \/ Oklahoma State Penitentiary<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rep. Kevin McDugle invited fellow legislators to Pete&#8217;s Place last month for lunch and to explain his belief that Richard Glossip is innocent.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div style=\"width: 100%; height: 170px; margin-bottom: 20px; border-radius: 10px; overflow: hidden;\"><iframe style=\"width: 100%; height: 170px;\" src=\"https:\/\/player.captivate.fm\/episode\/aaef1342-e80a-4a83-a1f9-eddfa6d55952\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"><\/iframe><\/div><p>Ten minutes east of Oklahoma State Penitentiary\u2019s white-washed walls, a lunch party converged on Pete\u2019s Place \u2013 a famous Italian eatery in Krebs \u2013 to discuss the impending execution of Richard Glossip.<\/p><p>State Rep. Kevin McDugle (R, Broken Arrow) stood at the front of one of the restaurant\u2019s private dining rooms forgoing a heavy wooden podium.<\/p><p>\u201cI believe that we\u2019ve got a guy in Oklahoma on death row that\u2019s innocent,\u201d McDugle proclaimed to the room of Democratic and Republican lawmakers.<\/p><p>He\u2019s a Republican and he supports the death penalty, but he says the state has to \u201cget it right.\u201d<\/p>\n<h3>The case for Glossip<\/h3><p><a href=\"https:\/\/theintercept.com\/2015\/09\/04\/richard-glossip-time-is-running-out\/\">Richard Glossip was convicted of hiring an accomplice<\/a> to murder his boss <a href=\"https:\/\/www.oscn.net\/dockets\/GetCaseInformation.aspx?db=oklahoma&number=CF-1997-244&cmid=65923\">in 1997<\/a>. Glossip\u2019s supporters claim he was condemned largely by bad police work, ineffective defense attorneys, false testimony from the actual murderer and dishonest prosecutors \u2013 not guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.<\/p><p>\u201cWe ought to at least have another mechanism if we doubt any part of it, because \u2026 we shouldn&#8217;t doubt when we put them to death,\u201d McDugle said. \u201cWe shouldn&#8217;t doubt at all. We should know.\u201d<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_34146\"  class=\"wp-caption module image aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px;\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-large wp-image-34146\" src=\"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Don-Knight-1920x1280.jpg\" alt=\"Don Knight stands at a wooden podium inside a private dining room in Pete's Place.\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1280\" srcset=\"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Don-Knight-1920x1280.jpg 1920w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Don-Knight-672x448.jpg 672w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Don-Knight-768x512.jpg 768w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Don-Knight-150x100.jpg 150w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Don-Knight-300x200.jpg 300w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Don-Knight-620x413.jpg 620w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Don-Knight-1620x1080.jpg 1620w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\" \/><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-media-credit\">Quinton Chandler \/ StateImpact Oklahoma<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-caption-text\">Don Knight represents Richard Glossip. He says he has uncovered new evidence and witnesses that debunk the state&#8217;s accusations against Glossip.<\/p>\n<\/div><p>McDugle, Glossip&#8217;s attorney and other advocates brought the bipartisan group of legislators together to rehash the details of the murder and remind them of a bill McDugle proposed earlier in the year. The legislation would have created Oklahoma\u2019s first conviction integrity unit.<\/p><p>Conviction integrity units are legal offices that review convictions. According to the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.law.umich.edu\/special\/exoneration\/Pages\/Conviction-Integrity-Units.aspx\">National Registry of Exonerations there are at least 85<\/a> in jurisdictions across the U.S.<\/p><p>The same group counts <a href=\"https:\/\/www.law.umich.edu\/special\/exoneration\/Pages\/Exonerations-in-the-United-States-Map.aspx\">38 exonerations in Oklahoma since 1989.<\/a><\/p><p>McDugle is pushing the bill because of his doubts about Glossip\u2019s guilt and the groundswell of support for death row prisoner Julius Jones.<\/p>\n<h3>A skeptical prosecutor<\/h3><p>Angela Marsee is district attorney for Beckham, Washita, Custer, Roger Mills and Ellis counties.<\/p><p>She sympathizes with McDugle\u2019s fears but questions his plan.<\/p><p>\u201cThe role of prosecutors is ultimately to ensure justice in \u2026 all of our criminal cases,\u201d Marsee said. \u201cWe have a duty and obligation, and a responsibility to take special precautions to prevent and rectify the conviction of any innocent person.\u201d<\/p><p>Marsee isn\u2019t opposed to a conviction integrity unit but if the state makes one, she says it will need to carefully gather input from multiple sides of the justice system. She says it has to be properly funded, have sufficient resources and it should operate on established best practices.<\/p>\n<h3>How to make a CIU<\/h3><p>McDugle\u2019s <a href=\"http:\/\/www.oklegislature.gov\/BillInfo.aspx?Bill=HB1551&Session=2100\">bill failed to clear early legislative hurdles<\/a> but he plans to reintroduce it in the next session.<\/p><p>The bill would\u2019ve created a conviction integrity unit inside the state\u2019s Pardon and Parole Board that could initiate investigations of capital murder convictions on its own or whenever a prisoner submitted a petition with a \u201cplausible claim of innocence.\u201d<\/p><p>The claim would have to be backed up by new information or evidence, and it would have to be an issue the unit could investigate and resolve. The bill also required a prisoner to have exhausted their options in court.<\/p><p>Reports on the unit\u2019s findings would be sent to the Pardon and Parole Board, the Attorney General, the prosecutor who handled the case at trial and the defense.<\/p><p>Angela Marsee thinks there are better ways to set it up.<\/p><p>\u201cI&#8217;m not aware of any conviction integrity unit in the United States being placed with a pardon and parole board,\u201d Marsee said.<\/p>\n<h3>Suggestions from Dallas<\/h3><p>Most units are in prosecutors\u2019 offices and Marsee says that makes more sense. She believes prosecutors\u2019 offices have better infrastructure for vetting cases. She also thinks the bill\u2019s burden of proof for determining which cases get reviewed is too low.<\/p><p>Cynthia Garza has some suggestions. She is head of a nearly 14-year-old conviction integrity unit in Dallas County, Texas.<\/p><p>There is some debate on best practices for these units, but Garza recommends adopting at least three standards.<\/p><p>First, she says the people in charge of units have to be invested in their mission to find and rectify wrongful convictions.<\/p><p>Next, she recommends a unit report directly to a district attorney. Her own unit is based inside the Dallas County District Attorney&#8217;s Office. Garza stresses that the unit must have independence to find success.<\/p><p>\u201cI think it really depends on the leadership, not just of the unit, but of the office,\u201d she said.<\/p><p>Garza thinks prosecutors\u2019 offices are good fits for integrity units because prosecutors have access to resources others don\u2019t. They can get ahold of the state\u2019s case files, police records and defense files. Prosecutors also have the power to secure legal representation and protection for witnesses.<\/p><p>Garza\u2019s team uses a straightforward process to decide which cases to investigate.<\/p><p>\u201cYou look for the red flags,\u201d she said. \u201cWas this case only based on eyewitness I.D.? Was there anything else corroborating this person&#8217;s guilt?\u201d<\/p><p>Did the state rely heavily on jailhouse informant testimony? These are common examples of conditions that led to wrongful convictions around the country.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_34144\"  class=\"wp-caption module image aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 1920px;\"><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-large wp-image-34144\" src=\"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-1920x1488.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1920\" height=\"1488\" srcset=\"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-1920x1488.jpg 1920w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-672x521.jpg 672w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-768x595.jpg 768w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-150x116.jpg 150w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-300x233.jpg 300w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-620x481.jpg 620w, https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/files\/2021\/06\/Kevin-McDugle-1393x1080.jpg 1393w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1920px) 100vw, 1920px\" \/><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-media-credit\">Quinton Chandler \/ StateImpact Oklahoma<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-caption-text\">Rep. Kevin McDugle toured death row inside Oklahoma State Penitentiary with a group of lawmakers after explaining his thoughts on Richard Glossip&#8217;s case.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<h3>A tour of death row<\/h3><p>After lunch, McDugle and his legislative guests visited Oklahoma State Penitentiary\u2019s death row unit.<\/p><p><em>\u201c<\/em>The cells are so thick, it&#8217;s a thick glass and so you might hear somebody yelling on the other side, but you can barely hear them yelling,\u201d McDugle said.<\/p><p>McDugle purposely wrote his bill to shield a conviction integrity unit from the influence of prosecutors, the Attorney General\u2019s Office, the governor and the Pardon and Parole Board.<\/p><p>To help explain why, he pointed to the district attorney who prosecuted Richard Glossip.<\/p><p>\u201cBob Macy, his goal was to be the number one guy in the country for death row,\u201d McDugle said.<\/p><p>Bob Macy won death sentences for <a href=\"https:\/\/www.readfrontier.org\/stories\/cowboy-bob-macy-called-2-deadliest-prosecutor\/\">54 people throughout his career<\/a> \u2013 courts later reversed nearly half of those sentences.<\/p><p>Macy\u2019s career faced heavy scrutiny after the work of Joyce Gilchrist \u2013 a former Oklahoma City police chemist \u2013 was discredited. Gilchrist worked with Macy on multiple criminal cases. The Innocence Project says her testimony helped convict 10 people who were later exonerated.<\/p><p>Marsee says she and other prosecutors may be willing to work with McDugle on his legislation next year, but she worries that he is mostly interested in finding a way to help Richard Glossip \u2013 not find answers to systemic problems.<\/p><p>McDugle says his bill is about Richard Glossip and Julius Jones but it\u2019s mostly about making sure innocent people aren\u2019t killed by the state.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>An Oklahoma lawmaker&#8217;s belief that an innocent man is on death row inspired him to call for the creation of a special unit to review death penalty convictions. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":201,"featured_media":34145,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[18],"tags":[814,1349,1352,1353,1351,1350],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/34141"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/201"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=34141"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/34141\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":34159,"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/34141\/revisions\/34159"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/34145"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=34141"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=34141"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateimpact.npr.org\/oklahoma\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=34141"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}